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	<title>Comments on: Sally Morem&#8217;s Turn to Get Controversial</title>
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	<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/</link>
	<description>Real Americans - Common Sense for Freedom</description>
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		<title>By: The 80 Percent Formula &#124; The American Freedom Network</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>The 80 Percent Formula &#124; The American Freedom Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-936</guid>
		<description>[...] solution to our problems, it IS THE PROBLEM. I would point out the intellectual excellence of our dear friend Sally.  We have distinct disagreements in future vision.  We share a love of American Freedom and a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] solution to our problems, it IS THE PROBLEM. I would point out the intellectual excellence of our dear friend Sally.  We have distinct disagreements in future vision.  We share a love of American Freedom and a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Weekly (mostly) Reads 5-3-2009 &#124; The American Freedom Network</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-933</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly (mostly) Reads 5-3-2009 &#124; The American Freedom Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 03:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-933</guid>
		<description>[...] Post of the Week [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Post of the Week [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-927</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 00:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-927</guid>
		<description>I am neither libertarian nor pacifist.  If attacked, we fight; if under immanent threat of attack, we fight.  My comments on that were clear.  I object to secular crusades to impose utopian schemes upon others who do not want them.  That is common sense and conservative.  The Woodrow Wilsons of this world (and Bush &#039;43 is one) are not conservative; they have more in common with Trotsky than they do with Burke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am neither libertarian nor pacifist.  If attacked, we fight; if under immanent threat of attack, we fight.  My comments on that were clear.  I object to secular crusades to impose utopian schemes upon others who do not want them.  That is common sense and conservative.  The Woodrow Wilsons of this world (and Bush &#8217;43 is one) are not conservative; they have more in common with Trotsky than they do with Burke.</p>
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		<title>By: Nik</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-919</guid>
		<description>Most libertarians are not &quot;pacifist&quot; thank you.  We recognize that the U.S. wasn&#039;t founded on imperialist principles.  We are sufficiently war like, thank you, when we are attacked (or are told we have been and believe it).  Our &quot;pacifism&quot; is limited to using our Armed Forces unconstitutionally and in pursuit of objectives that aren&#039;t *National Defense*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most libertarians are not &#8220;pacifist&#8221; thank you.  We recognize that the U.S. wasn&#8217;t founded on imperialist principles.  We are sufficiently war like, thank you, when we are attacked (or are told we have been and believe it).  Our &#8220;pacifism&#8221; is limited to using our Armed Forces unconstitutionally and in pursuit of objectives that aren&#8217;t *National Defense*.</p>
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		<title>By: Super Power Super State &#124; The American Freedom Network</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Super Power Super State &#124; The American Freedom Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 16:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-918</guid>
		<description>[...] to the most excellent previous post by our dear friend Sally,  many, if not most, libertarians (note the small l) do not have any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the most excellent previous post by our dear friend Sally,  many, if not most, libertarians (note the small l) do not have any [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Morem</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Morem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-908</guid>
		<description>One of my main points in my last reply as that we&#039;ve done nothing but going &quot;abroad.&quot;  The borders of the United States were fixed after the Treaty of Paris in 1783, but our intrepid pioneers continually violated Washington&#039;s supposed limits.  From what I understand, he didn&#039;t really object all that much to Americans&#039; westering habits.

We didn&#039;t get to be a superpower by obeying libertarian pacifist sentiment, which, BTW, was superimposed anachronistically on 19th century America by 20th century political philosophers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my main points in my last reply as that we&#8217;ve done nothing but going &#8220;abroad.&#8221;  The borders of the United States were fixed after the Treaty of Paris in 1783, but our intrepid pioneers continually violated Washington&#8217;s supposed limits.  From what I understand, he didn&#8217;t really object all that much to Americans&#8217; westering habits.</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t get to be a superpower by obeying libertarian pacifist sentiment, which, BTW, was superimposed anachronistically on 19th century America by 20th century political philosophers.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Morem</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Morem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-907</guid>
		<description>Here is my response to a response posted in Postmodern Conservatism web site:

http://www.firstthings.com/postmodernconservative/?p=404&amp;cpage=1#comment-5250

Why do you assume the Founders assumed American expansion was bad? They didn’t. The enormity of the United States of America was the result of the most vigorous expansionist policy in the world. 

Robert Kagan’s “Dangerous Nation” illustrates the point superbly in his history of America’s 19th century foreign policy.

Libertarians ignore that most pointed of facts in American history when they argue that Americans just wanted to mind their business. Tell it to the Indians, the French, the British, the Spanish, the Mexicans, the Russians, the Hawaiians, the Filipinos.

In fact, America’s Founding Generation invented one of the true wonders of the world: The very first non-colonial system of political expansion. Almost simultaneously, the Confederation Congress and the Constitutional Convention laid out the plan in the forms of the Northwest Ordinance, and Article IV. Each new state was admitted to the Union free and equal to the older states, not as colonial provinces.

The only reason America didn’t expand further than it did was slavery. The Caribbean,Central and South America would have been slave states, Canada would have been composed of free states. Congress would not permit annexation of those territories for obvious reasons. Just think “Missouri.” After the Civil War, American energies turned inward as it industrialized.

I deliberately left the means open to how (if it ever happens) America would turn the world into an free and democratic American empire.

It’s possible (just barely) that no use of arms will be needed. Most of our states joined the Union at their insistence, not at Washington’s. And certainly not at the point of bayonets and cannon.

It’s also possible that it may happen very incrementally, and may have already begun. In “The Case for Goliath,” Michael Mandenbaum makes a convincing case for the fact that forms of American informal governance of the world already exist. Many leftists believe American empire already exists, also. Of course they are very much against it, but the points they make are suggestive.

Incrementalism may occur as the result of world demand and/or perceived dire necessity on the part of American leaders. (See the Somalian pirates for a good example.) In which case, it will be more of an evolutionary process than the revolutionary process involved in traditional national “unfriendly takeovers” that you have in mind.

The world empire I have in mind would be enforced judiciously by very high tech, pinpoint military operations, with little or no collateral damage. The idea that we are stuck with today’s military tech for tomorrow’s operations is laughable considering how fast our tech has developed during our wars (Iraq included) and between our wars.

Have you ever seen the world map of American military commands (SouthCom, CentCom, PaCom, EuCom)? Check it out here:

http://www.yes-dk.dk/YES/images/stories/Upload/uscom.jpg

This map is a map of world empire American style. Benevolent, kindly meant, but world empire just the same.

There are two things I worry about most. Both involve Obama. 1. He takes leftist pacifism seriously and seriously degrades our military. 2. He begins to envision a leftist takeover of the world, a la the Soviet Union. Disastrous.

I suspect (I hope) he’ll just let what has been evolving continue to evolve, cut back a little here and there, and then leave office in 2013 without doing too much damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is my response to a response posted in Postmodern Conservatism web site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.firstthings.com/postmodernconservative/?p=404&amp;cpage=1#comment-5250" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstthings.com/postmodernconservative/?p=404&amp;cpage=1#comment-5250</a></p>
<p>Why do you assume the Founders assumed American expansion was bad? They didn’t. The enormity of the United States of America was the result of the most vigorous expansionist policy in the world. </p>
<p>Robert Kagan’s “Dangerous Nation” illustrates the point superbly in his history of America’s 19th century foreign policy.</p>
<p>Libertarians ignore that most pointed of facts in American history when they argue that Americans just wanted to mind their business. Tell it to the Indians, the French, the British, the Spanish, the Mexicans, the Russians, the Hawaiians, the Filipinos.</p>
<p>In fact, America’s Founding Generation invented one of the true wonders of the world: The very first non-colonial system of political expansion. Almost simultaneously, the Confederation Congress and the Constitutional Convention laid out the plan in the forms of the Northwest Ordinance, and Article IV. Each new state was admitted to the Union free and equal to the older states, not as colonial provinces.</p>
<p>The only reason America didn’t expand further than it did was slavery. The Caribbean,Central and South America would have been slave states, Canada would have been composed of free states. Congress would not permit annexation of those territories for obvious reasons. Just think “Missouri.” After the Civil War, American energies turned inward as it industrialized.</p>
<p>I deliberately left the means open to how (if it ever happens) America would turn the world into an free and democratic American empire.</p>
<p>It’s possible (just barely) that no use of arms will be needed. Most of our states joined the Union at their insistence, not at Washington’s. And certainly not at the point of bayonets and cannon.</p>
<p>It’s also possible that it may happen very incrementally, and may have already begun. In “The Case for Goliath,” Michael Mandenbaum makes a convincing case for the fact that forms of American informal governance of the world already exist. Many leftists believe American empire already exists, also. Of course they are very much against it, but the points they make are suggestive.</p>
<p>Incrementalism may occur as the result of world demand and/or perceived dire necessity on the part of American leaders. (See the Somalian pirates for a good example.) In which case, it will be more of an evolutionary process than the revolutionary process involved in traditional national “unfriendly takeovers” that you have in mind.</p>
<p>The world empire I have in mind would be enforced judiciously by very high tech, pinpoint military operations, with little or no collateral damage. The idea that we are stuck with today’s military tech for tomorrow’s operations is laughable considering how fast our tech has developed during our wars (Iraq included) and between our wars.</p>
<p>Have you ever seen the world map of American military commands (SouthCom, CentCom, PaCom, EuCom)? Check it out here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yes-dk.dk/YES/images/stories/Upload/uscom.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.yes-dk.dk/YES/images/stories/Upload/uscom.jpg</a></p>
<p>This map is a map of world empire American style. Benevolent, kindly meant, but world empire just the same.</p>
<p>There are two things I worry about most. Both involve Obama. 1. He takes leftist pacifism seriously and seriously degrades our military. 2. He begins to envision a leftist takeover of the world, a la the Soviet Union. Disastrous.</p>
<p>I suspect (I hope) he’ll just let what has been evolving continue to evolve, cut back a little here and there, and then leave office in 2013 without doing too much damage.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-902</guid>
		<description>I agree with J.Q. Adams - don&#039;t go abroad in search of monsters to destroy - and with Washington (no entangling alliances) and Eisenhower (beware the military-industrial-congressional complex).  Any war launched without provocation is unlawful, and if continued without a declaration of war, it is not Constitutional.  Utopian schemes to rid the world of dictators arfe Wilsonian, and not conservative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with J.Q. Adams &#8211; don&#8217;t go abroad in search of monsters to destroy &#8211; and with Washington (no entangling alliances) and Eisenhower (beware the military-industrial-congressional complex).  Any war launched without provocation is unlawful, and if continued without a declaration of war, it is not Constitutional.  Utopian schemes to rid the world of dictators arfe Wilsonian, and not conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: Nik</title>
		<link>http://amfreenet.com/2009/04/sally-morems-turn-to-get-controversial/comment-page-1/#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amfreenet.com/?p=1355#comment-899</guid>
		<description>Not controversial, thought provoking and stimulating of good discussion.  More to come I&#039;m sure ;-)  Thanks for the excellent post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not controversial, thought provoking and stimulating of good discussion.  More to come I&#8217;m sure <img src='http://amfreenet.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Thanks for the excellent post</p>
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